Neurological Correlates

38 responses so far ↓

• 1 Sariade // Dec 19, 2008 at 8:50 pm

  Hi Swivelchair,

  Nice set of links, and great suggestions. It’s good to see the word getting out! Here is another one which has a wealth of info http://preview.tinyurl.com/sy7p3

  Scroll down till you see the psychopathy links on the left. The newsite http://www.sott.net keeps a close eye on them. I found them through saferelationships.com

  Try this site too: http://www.ponerology.com It looks at psychopathy as a societal condition. Pretty mindblowing stuff as you know. Keep up the good work!

• 2 swivelchair // Dec 20, 2008 at 12:24 am

  Thanks Sariade – I’d like to bring the whole psychopathy/sociopathy into the mainstream thinking. Not sure I agree with what’s in the links, but thanks for the comment.

• 3 Johnathan // Feb 5, 2009 at 5:07 pm

  I agree. I don’t see how people can so readily chant against video games, yet turn a blind eye towards people who lack emotions and generally are not even fully human. I see no reason to keep them around; their very point in life is to hurt others for their pleasure. Even crazy people can love and be empathetic.

• 4 swivelchair // Feb 5, 2009 at 7:53 pm

  Hey Johnathan, point taken: when people who want to hurt you are around, make yourself scarce.

  Welcome aboard, and glad to recruit you to anti-sociopath activism.

  Now go educate other people.

• 5 lol // Mar 24, 2009 at 4:47 pm

  There are two things that seperate “us” from “you people.” The first is that we acknowledge the importance and understanding that all men actualize out of instinct andself-interest. The second is that we have more frontal white matter. You know, that stuff that seperates homosapien sapiens from apes? Your activism will hardly prevent evolution unless of course you think you can bring back the witch burnings and crusade against us. I don’t forsee that for you.

• 6 lol // Mar 24, 2009 at 5:01 pm

  Also, your paintbrush.exe anti-devil logo is absolutely hilarious. No, really…it is.

• 7 swivelchair // Mar 24, 2009 at 8:00 pm

  lol, thank you for your comments.

  Readers: Usual disclaimer, I have no idea who is for real and who isn’t.

• 8 Sandra, fo' real // Apr 2, 2009 at 1:54 pm

  Actually, the frontal cortex in human and great ape brains are proportionately the same. So not sure what lol is talking about, unless he’s under the impression that we other contributors are Gibbons, which wouldn’t make him a sociopath as much as a run-of-the-mill anthropomorphizing nutcase.

  I personally like the logo, and, with your permission swivelchair, I would like to make some stickers.

• 9 swivelchair // Apr 2, 2009 at 9:09 pm

  Fo’ real sticker request granted. GREAT IDEA.
  Seriously.
  Stick stickers on every sociopath office cube or corner office or on their back or where ever. Make T-shirts.
  THANK YOU.

  And, Fo’ Real Sandra, thank you for the moral support against lol, but I thought his/her comments were instructive — so textbook that I wondered if lol was just a fake sociopath (no, lol, I’m not baiting you, I’m serious.)
  Lol is totally correct on the white matter front: sociopaths and pathological liars have more white matter than controls. (link below). But I respectfully disagree with the conclusory statement that it is evolutionarily advantageous. I suppose under game theory being the single cheat is advantageous, until all the cheats are put together. Then you have Wall Street. And we can see what happened there.

  Yang et al., “Prefrontal white matter in pathological liars,” Br J Psychiatry. 187: 320-325 (Oct 2005)

• 10 Sandra // Apr 3, 2009 at 3:54 pm

  Ah yes, I stand corrected. Does this mean that apes aren’t sociopaths?

  I have to wonder about a study that uses so few participants. Only 12 liars? Can we really conclude anything statistically significant from 12 people? Notice that 6 of the 12 liars were actually malingerers. I would say that a person who lies to get unemployment benefits is lazy, or tired of low-paying low-level work, rather than a true liar or sociopath.

  I’m beginning to think that this study was about as scientific as the “proof” that the Torah contains coded messages.

  “Then you have Wall Street”. Indeed!

• 11 swivelchair // Apr 4, 2009 at 12:27 am

  “Sandra” yup,a bigger sample would be more conclusive, but you know, how to you recruit pathological liars into your study? If you want to get sociopaths for a study, temp employment agencies are the place (I knew someone who worked in that lab). But liars aren’t going to enroll.

  I thought the dead sea scrolls were said to be prepared by Judiac monks were holed up in some caves living lives of austerity to convice the Romans that they didn’t have to be threatened by other religions, but really the dead sea scrolls were prepared by the religious orders in the general population. Is that what you mean?

• 12 pathwhisperer // Apr 16, 2009 at 6:18 am

  OK, I’m on board.

  I don’t mean to be picky, but what does a red cat have to do with sociopathy? Our symbol is NO CATS?

  Scrap wood shack? Wood? Sounds nice, I only have tar paper.

  Nice site, great idea.

  pathwhisperer

• 13 swivelchair // Apr 16, 2009 at 8:21 am

  Glad to recruit you Pathwhisperer! Your site has all the stories I wanted to analyze but never go around to, plus the legal implications — so I’m a Pathwhisperer wannabe.
  Please be as picky as you want. The graphic is supposed to be a red devil with a slash through it. The horns should probably be more pointed, because they do look like ears.
  As an anonymous blogger metaphorically holed up in a scrapwood or tarpaper shack, I’m hoping to get a little attention to this kind of thing, from the bio- angle, rather than the straight psychology/psychiatry angle, although any education is a good idea regardless of your point of view.
  Readers: Check out The Path Whisperer

• 14 Charmed // Apr 28, 2009 at 2:55 pm

  This is fabulous! Thank you!

• 15 swivelchair // Apr 28, 2009 at 9:41 pm

  Woo Hoo! Hey Charmed! Where’s the documentary?

• 16 anonypath? // May 30, 2009 at 5:33 pm

  I’m curious about your stance on sociopathy, particularly the notion that its presence is like life itself: present or totally absent. I’ve considered for some time now that I may be a sociopath, but I don’t believe I deserve the demonization you’re preaching here. I don’t experience love, compassion, or genuine remorse for anything I’ve done, and I’m never satisfied with anything I have; however, I don’t go around causing problems for other people, either. I was just about to lie about the reason I hold back, without even really realizing it (it’s hard not to), but since this is anonymous, I’ll do my best to speak frankly. I want to be liked, and I want to be trusted. It’s only logical that at some point, somewhere, somehow, someone will pick up on a lie or subconsciously realize that I’m trying to manipulate them. It won’t take long before a) nobody likes or trusts me or b) I’m spending 90% of my energy trying to maintain appearances. In the end, I find it’s far more reasonable to follow a hard set of ethics guided by logic alone, lying only about things that don’t affect others. Nobody knows, for example, that I really don’t give a damn about them–only what they can do for me. Generally speaking, though, I ensure that they gain far more out of our interactions that I do. What’s so bad about that? Why do I deserve to have a crusade against me, hmm? The only time I could see myself getting out of line is if I had absolute power, and even then, the drive for social acceptance would likely dictate that my facade remain intact.

  I do believe there are different levels of sociopathy, if I am indeed what you’d call a sociopath. I know a few others who have no control over their actions aside from, as you said, trying to keep themselves from getting caught. Everything they do reeks of a plot or scheme.

  Me… I’m just trying to live my life. For the most part.

• 17 Myers // Jun 2, 2009 at 6:43 am

  I find it amusing that you associate us with demonic entities. I, myself, do not associate with such irrational notions of angels and demons, but I suppose it is your choice of logo.

  On a more serious note, I find your libel to be quite deliberately hate-filled. I’m impressed, to say the least. Never has a “normal” so blatantly asserted one’s authority. Or tried to. Usually the movement against sociopaths is nothing but skewed attempts at warning the general public. You, on the other hand, empower the “innocent” bystanders with knowledge. Then encourage them with some lowly attempt of defiance.

  Unfortunately, you cannot make us simply disappear, especially with those futile efforts. Intelligent sociopaths are genetically predisposed to a position of power. It is simply survival of the fittest at work. How are you going to rival that?

• 18 aeschenkarnos // Jun 4, 2009 at 2:40 pm

  Myers: “Unfortunately, you cannot make us simply disappear, especially with those futile efforts. Intelligent sociopaths are genetically predisposed to a position of power. It is simply survival of the fittest at work. How are you going to rival that?”

  We’re going to rival it thus: (a) you’re not particularly intelligent as a group, yours is more a kind of predatorial cunning than real intelligence: you’ve learned to pull levers quickly and get a lot of cookies, but you don’t actually *understand* anything much; (b) on that point, evolution doesn’t work that way, there is no winner to the game of evolution, no ideal strategy, there is only survival.

  Whenever Strategy A (eg, cheating) gets ahead to the point where those who pursue it become common, strategies predatorial on Strategy A (eg, cheat-hunting) and strategies hostile to Strategy A (eg, shunning) become more viable.

  Further to the matter of your intelligence, simplistic black-and-white explanations and magical thinking are typical of sociopaths. To understand how something *actually works* requires a level of caring about truth, a willingness to change ideas, and humility before the facts that sociopaths simply do not have. Sociopaths tend to latch onto whatever explanations aggrandize themselves and demonize and/or disempower others, and ride them all the way to hell. They don’t think about anything they don’t *need* to think about, as their minds are largely occupied with thinking about fear and greed. They interpret criticism of their ideas as damage to their egos. Explanations they came up with themselves are triply sticky in their minds.

  Politics and religion are full of sociopaths, authoritarian and conservative politics especially, whether left-wing or right-wing from an economic point of view. Who else can so blithely disregard harm done to others in order to benefit themselves?

• 19 Myers // Jun 4, 2009 at 3:00 pm

  I think you misunderstood me. I was not implying that sociopaths as a group are intelligent. I was rather stating the fact that certain sociopaths as individuals are intelligent.

  And, as a person clinically diagnosed with ASPD, I am quite capable of understanding things in depth.

• 20 asociopath // Jun 16, 2009 at 6:24 am

  I’ve been diagnosed as a sociopath for about 20 years, as Myers has said, I find it almost impossible to have empathy for other people, I’m quite fond of animals though. As a result, I watch my interactions with people carefully, and act out an elaborate facade that nicely fakes that of a caring well adjusted individual. I don’t do anyone any harm, I don’t care about you enough to do you any harm, and I behave normally because it makes my life easier. Why would you wish to launch a pogrom against me? Are there any other minority groups you dislike? As for your logo, there’s another symbol used quite recently as a banner for the elimination of demonised minorities. A swastika.

• 21 silence is golden // Jun 28, 2009 at 11:05 pm

  Well, that just about shut everyone the hell up!
  I love having the last word. Does that make me a sociopath? I don’t give a shit what you all think. I guess that pretty much makes it official. Cheers!

• 22 jloome // Jul 1, 2009 at 12:43 pm

  With due respect to the two sociopaths posting here puzzled as to why they would be singled out, most of your ilk don’t have your sense of self-awareness. They would never rationalize that they may lose popularity or status by acting outside the norms. While most sociopaths can exhibit some baseline fear with respect to losing personal status or property, most aren’t intelligent enough to weight that against impulse.

  That’s why people fear sociopaths; the ones of average intelligence, below-average intelligence or even above-average intelligence are still typically willing to take chances that hurt others to benefit themselves.

  On top of that, there are numerous conditions and psychoses that sociopaths themselves can suffer, including an addiction to studying and absorbing emotional extremes. Many a sociopathic serial killer has admitted half the thrill came from seeing extremes of emotion that his lack of empathy and remorse guaranteed he or she would never be able to experience.

  That’s why. If either of you have any sense, you’ll commit yourselves to long-term care. Of course, we all know that doesn’t gibe as logical to either of you, because it’s not in your best interests, so I’ll just have to hope you’re both hit by a bus or something before you start doing serious harm.

  Incidentally, it may well be that you both suffer from an extreme narcissistic personalisty disorder, and not actual sociopathy.

  Most true sociopaths exhibit violent tendencies as children that push them out of the mainstream, and while the idea of undiscovered sociopaths flocking into white collar positions makes for good science fiction, it doesn’t jibe with statistical norms when it comes to intelligence and the studied behaviour of young sociopaths.

  So if both of you feel truly nothing for anyone but yourselves, and yet are also self-aware, you’re rare.

• 23 Myers // Jul 14, 2009 at 4:33 pm

  Rare indeed. I was forcibly admitted into a psychiatric ward when I was thirteen, that’s how I know. And I’m perfectly capable of controlling my impulses.

  Sure, we pull a few scams here or there. Maybe subject a few people to a rather unfortunate situation. As far as I’m concerned, they shouldn’t have been so susceptible to deception.

  Furthermore, it’s absurd to claim sociopaths are the only persons capable of deceiving.

  You need not fear me, but, instead, your own stupidity.

• 24 m_astera // Jul 18, 2009 at 9:26 pm

  How to deal with sociopaths?

  The answers are pretty simple.

  First, educate people about their existence, and exactly what that all implies. Most don’t yet realize there are creatures walking around in human bodies who have no conscience or empathy, and who take pleasure in the misfortune of others.

  And second, find a way to positively identify them and mark them permanently.

  The first is in process, the second needs a bit more time to perfect but we’ll get there.

• 25 Empathogen // Jul 23, 2009 at 1:25 pm

  Funny that the self-described sociopaths (we’re taking their word on the professional diagnosis) are claiming that a lack of empathy with other human beings doesn’t harm anyone, implying that harm is always an active process.

  I’d bet at least some people in their lives would probably say that they’ve felt harmed by a lack of empathy displayed by these people since those who do care about others need the feeling reciprocated. Appealing to someone’s empathy and getting ice instead feels horrible, but then sociopaths wouldn’t care about that and seem to conclude that just because they don’t physically harm others they must not cause any harm at all.

  And “survival of the fittest” has long been obsolete in evolutionary circles as a greater understanding of life’s complexity in terms of how interconnected it all is has been gained. Social Darwinism has mostly been a justification for pathological behavior and is a potent force for cultural decay but not much else. If you ask evolutionary biologists, they’ll tell you that the ‘fittest’ species are usually the most cooperative (either within their species or among other species).

• 26 Davo // Dec 10, 2009 at 8:44 pm

  O peez oorf. Ain’t no antisocial activist. Just followed the links .. heh. (on the other hand, some things are beginning to stir me out of the comfy sludge that “society” creates .. heh.

• 27 Davo // Dec 10, 2009 at 8:52 pm

  No, wait. just reread it. anti sociopath. must look that one up.

• 28 Tim Hagiwara // Dec 28, 2009 at 5:32 pm

  Excellent and very trenchant insight here and a good resource since I think a lot of people are finally coming around to the fact our civilization, whether we know it or not, has been created by psychopaths, I’m not talking about our average run of the mill psycho like a Jeffery Dahmer, I’m referring specifically to “industrial psychopaths.”

  The term “sociopath” isn’t accurate enough – begin calling it what it is, the system vets psychopaths and am beginning to think America is the perfect system for nurturing these hard wired miscreants. The scary part is they are worshiped in American civilization, i.e., politicians, corporate CEOs, bureaucrats, movie stars. What we have here is the perfect environment for psychopaths, a money system in private hands being effectively manipulated in carrying out a psychopaths dream come true – total anonymous power.

  Doctor Robert Hare has so far come up with the most apt description I have heard yet, we are dealing with what I referred to and what he calls “industrial psychopaths.”

• 29 swivelchair // Dec 29, 2009 at 1:02 pm

  Hey Tim, welcome. Terminology is all over the place, and I don’t get hung up on that so much — but the concept that affective empathy and neural moral wiring is based in biology is an important one for civilized society.

• 30 Mordant C. // Jan 5, 2010 at 11:02 pm

  Well, kudos to you! There just isn’t enough awareness of psychopaths and what they can do. We need to be alert to psychopaths in business, in law, in the divorce courts, in relationships, in our schools & nurseries, in our hospitals… I think the idea of anti-sociopath activism is a really brilliant one, and I’d happily sign up for your campaign.

  On a personal note, I survived a 4-year relationship with a man I believe was a sociopath. It left me permenantly traumatised. I wish you’d been writing back when I was 18, and I’m so, so glad you’re writing now.

  Just one thing: honestly? That logo kind of doesn’t work. I’m sorry, but the Devil motif looks slapdash and seems a bit vague; it could be for a campaign against Satanism, or heck–a campaign against space-hoppers. How about something directly related to sociopathy, like the letters ASPD behind a slash? Or a more recognisable allegory, like a suited torso with a snake head?

  Anyways, keep up the amazing work! I will be following your blog avidly.

  Best regards, Mordant.

• 31 Annie // Jan 13, 2010 at 4:01 pm

  Educating yourself about the sociopath is a good thing… Problem is, unless you have a run-in with a sociopath or even more unfortunate have a personal relationship with one… you may have an extremely difficult time recognizing one. That’s the scarey part…you don’t know what the hell happened to you until you are involved. Once you cross the sociopath, he’ll do nothing short of ruining your life. How do I know this? I’m recovering from a FIVE year relationship with the devil himself. He has a very succussful Cafe in downtown Tacoma, WA. He’s sweet, charming, personable…just DO NOT get on his bad side. Don’t do business with him either…he’s never to be trusted. Ask the folks at XXXX, they’ll tell you about his business ethics. He destroys all that he touches and has a beautiful smile while he’s doing it. And I guarantee it’s all your fault…or so he’ll say. A sociopath is a person with no conscience. He’s fake inside a human shell. If there’s ever a sickness in your stomach while you’re in the presence of another person…listen to your stomach, it’s trying to tell you something. It’s trying to tell you that there’s evil inside.

  My support, empathy, and compassion to any person who endures now or is recovering from an unfortunate experience with a sociopath.

  How to deal with a sociopath is to NEVER deal with a sociopath. NO EXCEPTIONS!

• 32 swivelchair // Jan 20, 2010 at 6:29 pm

  MC, thanks for the support and sorry to hear yet again about another run in with a psychopath.

  We hear you re: the logo and will roll out another one. (*sigh*) Education is key, and hopefully the biological aspects and scientific validation will put this knowledge more in the mainstream.

• 33 swivelchair // Jan 20, 2010 at 6:40 pm

  Thanks for the comment A (I took out some identifying info).

  You can’t be held hostage by a head case, that’s for sure.

  Psychopath white matter disconnect +/- other anatomical, genetic, physiological correlates is organic, and quantifiable, or at lease observable in more than a binary sense with suitable imaging. The lack ofconnection to a moral center isn’t a choice.
  I’m hopeful that just as there are drug courts, there will be psychopath courts where the psychopath has to go for “rehab” — growing in the missing white matter.

  Hey stem cell docs, I’ll try to figure out a stem cell differentiation recipe to make white matter in situ.

• 34 a_self_aware_sociopath // Jan 23, 2010 at 6:28 am

  LOL, unlike some of my ilk that have posted here previously, I find this all to be deliciously funny. You do realize that there is no set definition of a sociopath and that trained professionals routinely misdiagnose cases of sociopathy; sometimes declaring non-sociopaths to be so and at other times declaring real sociopaths not to be so.

  This means, in effect, that you are creating a movement that can basically be wielded against anyone you don’t like, by simply declaring them a “sociopath”. Exactly like the “War on Terror” that can be used to do anything to anyone as long as you declare your victim to be a “terrorist”.

  Its quite brilliant really and surely the product of someone not overly burdened with a conscience. LOL, I wish I had thought of it first, this would be the ideal avenue for a creative sociopath to hurt lots of people, something I can surely appreciate. Good show, sir.

• 35 Annie // Jan 23, 2010 at 6:47 am

  a_self_aware_sociopath…??? Of all the things I don’t know…this one I know… the sociopath would also have an extreme case of narcissism as the two seem to go together. He or she wouldn’t even consider strolling the sights of sociopath and narcissism and the devastation they leave in their wake. They don’t see an issue with anything they do…NOT EVER

• 36 a_self_aware_sociopath // Jan 23, 2010 at 12:22 pm

  Ahhh, poor little Annie, did someone play with you once?

  Affording you the pretension of knowing all about sociopaths, perhaps it didn’t occur to you that going online to look at the the incessant whimpering of those too weak to handle demanding relationships might be amusing.

  This page in particular is just hilarious, usually I don’t comment, but in this case I just had to as it is just too good. In fact I’d wager the fellow launching the campaign is probably a sociopath in his own right, because as I said previously, this is certainly something I could set up and have all sorts of fun with. Not even mentioning that it is perfect bait to lure in the wounded members of the herd – the prey that has escaped once before – who are already injured and thus easier to take a second time. The funny thing is, I could come back here next month in a different guise and you’d never know unless I let you.

• 37 Annie // Jan 23, 2010 at 1:29 pm

  Hit a nerve, huh?

• 38 Annie // Jan 23, 2010 at 1:49 pm

  Like I say… if you were a sociopath you wouldn’t be on here. There are too many battles to be fought out in the real world where you could actually do some real damage. You’d be caught up in too many cons and scemes to be hangin out here.

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